Post Match. Pies down to Roos . All comments please.

[Born to Pie]

Our backline functions best when we have Moore, Howe and Langdon intercepting.

That then allows runners and users like Crisp & Maynard, among others, to run past and launch from the back half.

With only Moore available last night they simply led him away from the contest.

Forward line can't work with DeGoey being the only target, our best work has been with multiple targets rotating out of the square.

Without quick movement from defence we seldom had the ball deep enough forward to take any advantage of DeGoey's strengths.

Captain obvious I know but no Stephenson or Elliott has really exposed Brown, Thomas and Daicos.

We were missing Stephenson, Elliott, Langdon, Beams, Adams and Howe last night, they are all best 22 in every team in the AFL.

We were also without Aish who has been good all year, Reid who we can probably say is finished and Sier for half a game, after being knocked senseless early.

We are struggling big time, but I'd rather it be now than round 22.

We have light at the end of the tunnel and we need to be patient.

There are players to come back and the players that are struggling will need to pull their fingers out.

Only 22 players struggled last night so no-one has an excuse next week.

[inxs88]

If Murphy, Howe and W Kelly were available that maybe good but given that and last nights insipid levels of toughness, Goldsack may provide some necessary aggression and oomph

[Pies4shaw]

We need the Future Captain back, quite urgently. He straightens the team up and closes down all those holes in our defensive 50. We won a couple of games before the extra load of trying to cope with his absence finally tore us apart.

Just have to hope he can get back for the finals, I suppose.

[Pies4shaw]

Since when did the definition of "learned" become "too new to the game to appreciate what a gifted footballer actually looks like"?

[Piesnchess]

It was woeful, but not as bad as all that. It was the loss we had to have, we have been lethargic, for some times now, just scraping wins, like last week. I just hope its a big wake up call, I thnk it will be, we must reload for the Hawks, and hit em hard. If we put in another insipid effort like last night, it would be very concerning, but we wont. Just beat the Hawks and get back on track, get some players back, thatd really help.

[chrisjjj]

Is anymore honestly surprised by that result? I've been telling everyone that will listen for over a month now how bad we are. We are actually the worst 2nd team I've seen. With all the injuries plus suspension we have I can not see how we can turn our form around anytime soon. Don't think it will be long before some of the other teams put it together and kick us out of the top four.

[Pies4shaw]

Treloar led us in
Disposals
DE from a midfielder
Most tackles
Equal most inside 50's
Ground ball gets
Pressure acts

Some people are really hard to please
He's now set a record for the most disposals by a Collingwood player at this point of the season eclispising Sidey from 2018
Interesting that at the same point Sidey DE was 69.4% Treloar's is 72.1% over the season and Treloar has 1638 more metered gained with 38 more touches than Sidey at the same time last season
We all raved about Sidey last season but statistically Treloar is having a better 2019 than Sidey had in 2018
Wonder why people don't rate his season ?

So we're clear, I wasn't bagging Treloar. I thought he was pretty good, all things considered and was defending him.

That said, he's not a particularly effective player at times. When he has too many handballs (as he did last night) and when he goes too far into the defensive half (as he did a few times last night), he does tend to become a liability because his use of the ball out of defence is - let's be blunt - despicable. It's not really his fault, though - our problem remains that we have no really quick ground players apart from him on the ball and in defence. As a consequence, he spends a fair bit of time having to run back deep - into positions where him getting his hands on the ball is more of a problem for us than for opponents.

As for the comparison with Sidebottom, the less said the better. The drop off in Sidebottom's output this year has been devastating for Collingwood. If Treloar didn't play, we probably wouldn't really notice any such huge difference (he was missed last year when he was hurt but him being missing didn't kill our momentum) - he isn't one of Collingwood's best players, by any means.

[masoncox]

Is it me
But i reckon norf had a deliberate policy of scragging the man.
The free kick count was way in our favour.
I thought that they reckoned that by scragging the man constantly
then yes they will give up a lot more frees.
But for every free we got they got away with 5 or 6 scrags
Which meant a slow game from us and very few marks in our forward half.

[the fuzz]

Ok. Last night was bad. Very bad.
It didn't have to happen, but it did and i'm glad it was last night rather than next week or the week after.
It's going to be a tough month, but I think we play our best footy against the best teams.
I'll back us to fire up next week. Our tackle and pressure will hopefully be back. When we do that, all else flows from there.

As far as top 4, its in our hands to beat the Eagles and Giants to set that up. We usually well against the Giants and I think it will be nice to be the underdogs again when we head West for the Eagles. It will be a hard game but we get a crack at them again and no one will give us a chance. That's how we like it.

.......and hopefully we get a few players back. Adams, will make a massive difference.

[Bucks2014]

There have been some very amusing posts between here and bigfooty. Treloar should be dropped, Pendles is a terrible captain. All the coaches should be sacked, replace the entire AFL side with the VFL side. The Cox experiment is over. It's so ridiculous I can't go on.

Anyway it truly was 2017 for me. We have been saying for at least 6 weeks we've been pretty ordinary. The injuries are really telling now, must get back Adams, Howe and Elliot as soon as possible. No point saying the remainder as they appear to be longer term.

The thing I can't understand is we have the best generational ruckman yet we can't win a bloody clearance. I totally get we are being man handled but this goes on for all sides. Our skills are just horrible at the moment, can't even find a target by Handball. Hate singling out players but that's how Sier got concussed Degoey missing by hand and setting him up.

Maynard imo was the only player prepared to take it on, actually sorry thought Crispy also tried. Thankfully Hawthorn aren't a physical side so they shouldn't make us look like boys the way North did.

Footy at the end of the day is pretty simple, win the footy and the rest should take care of it self. We need to start winning it out of the middle. Pretty evident last night how much we missed Stevo, or should I say how much Degoey did. Stevo played, Degoey would've gone in the middle earlier or if he didn't would have most likely had an easier defender.

I hope Brody and the mids work out why they are not gelling and soon, it used to be only the really good sides now it's all of them.

I want to end with a positive, Jordan Roughead recruit of the year. Although we are missing Langdon and Howe, Roughy is doing a fantastic job.

[lihei]

Treloar led us in
Disposals
DE from a midfielder
Most tackles
Equal most inside 50's
Ground ball gets
Pressure acts

Some people are really hard to please
He's now set a record for the most disposals by a Collingwood player at this point of the season eclispising Sidey from 2018
Interesting that at the same point Sidey DE was 69.4% Treloar's is 72.1% over the season and Treloar has 1638 more metered gained with 38 more touches than Sidey at the same time last season
We all raved about Sidey last season but statistically Treloar is having a better 2019 than Sidey had in 2018
Wonder why people don't rate his season ?

So we're clear, I wasn't bagging Treloar. I thought he was pretty good, all things considered and was defending him.

That said, he's not a particularly effective player at times. When he has too many handballs (as he did last night) and when he goes too far into the defensive half (as he did a few times last night), he does tend to become a liability because his use of the ball out of defence is - let's be blunt - despicable. It's not really his fault, though - our problem remains that we have no really quick ground players apart from him on the ball and in defence. As a consequence, he spends a fair bit of time having to run back deep - into positions where him getting his hands on the ball is more of a problem for us than for opponents.

As for the comparison with Sidebottom, the less said the better. The drop off in Sidebottom's output this year has been devastating for Collingwood. If Treloar didn't play, we probably wouldn't really notice any such huge difference (he was missed last year when he was hurt but him being missing didn't kill our momentum) - he isn't one of Collingwood's best players, by any means.

Entirely agree.

[Pies2016]

Selection integrity isn’t dropping a few players because you have your first bad loss of the season in round 15.
Selection integrity is putting trust in the players that have got you to second on the ladder in the first place. If we had players in the VFL banging the door down, it would be different but we don’t.
Forget all the theories, the single biggest damning stat on the night was our horrible scoreboard return from turnovers. We average 40 + points a game from turnovers. Against North, we scored something like 10 points and that alone is a difference of 30 points on the scoreboard.
It was a bad night because for whatever reason, we didn’t apply enough pressure and that starts with your leaders, not hanging out 20 year olds to dry for a dirty night.
The right thing to do is to trust this group ( other than compulsory changes ) for another week or two and allow them to make amends for a bad night, not reward players who haven’t done enough in the VFL in the first place.

[Damien]

Goldsack is not the answer.

I doubt that Tyler Brown is ready.

I don’t think Elliot is cooked but I think Reid is.

No room in the same team for Roughead, Howe, Moore and Langdon. Langdon is the last choice of those for mine.

After wasting away in the two’s all year whilst Beams was given games on reputation; Sier finally got back but was missed when he went off. He needs to be in the 22 for the rest of the year.

Stevenson was missed severely too.

Apart from the poor effort of several players last night; we were out coached. Rhyce Shaw totally shut down the corridor, we couldn’t switch and had to kick down the line to a contest all night.

The sheer depth and talent of our players has possibly masked over some poor tactical coaching over the last 6 weeks yet we’ve still been getting the 4 points most weeks.

Need a big lift from the players and coaches alike in the next month.

[Johnno75]

Our midfield is getting smashed and has since Freo game, yeah we beat Dees and Dogs but only because they couldn’t put their chances away. We have absolutely no grunt. Sier could be missing next week, Adams who knows how long before he is back. De Goey needs more midfield time. He might be our best forward but where hardly getting it down there, interchange Treloar and Sidey up forward.

Treloar had 39 disposals but only if you had rose coloured glasses would you call his game good. Only 14 kicks with less than 10 effective and many hot potato handballs, not getting enough burst away from the contest or meters gained.

Still cant understand how we have the most dominant ruck that delivers 50+ hitouts and we rank bottom 3 for clearances. Lucky the cricket WC is on because it is a good distraction from how poor we have been lately.

[inxs88]

Selection integrity isn’t dropping a few players because you have your first bad loss of the season in round 15.
Selection integrity is putting trust in the players that have got you to second on the ladder in the first place. If we had players in the VFL banging the door down, it would be different but we don’t.
Forget all the theories, the single biggest damning stat on the night was our horrible scoreboard return from turnovers. We average 40 + points a game from turnovers. Against North, we scored something like 10 points and that alone is a difference of 30 points on the scoreboard.
It was a bad night because for whatever reason, we didn’t apply enough pressure and that starts with your leaders, not hanging out 20 year olds to dry for a dirty night.
The right thing to do is to trust this group ( other than compulsory changes ) for another week or two and allow them to make amends for a bad night, not reward players who haven’t done enough in the VFL in the first place.

Selection integrity is dropping players over a fair sample size of inferior performances that let you down and have gone backwards from season's prior:

1. Thomas: 14 games for 12 goals and no plan B
2. Varcoe: 10 games for 3 goals and NOT the requisite forward pressure
3. Cox: the body language of a preferred journalist last night vs AFL player

So like Hinkley whom dropped Westhoff, Ryder etc... and beat the Cats, a reasonable level of player accountability should be a standard not a goal.