#17,#11 Dayne Beams

[HAL]

That is a hypothetical question.

[Piesnchess]

Oh what a lot of twaddle! How DARE anyone suggest Beamer isn't an A-Grader! He is not only one of the top ten players in the game he was a goal-kicking mid, something we are seriously going to miss in 2015. And we certainly would've been paying him something like 800K next year, that's simply the going rate for elite mids. Bloody history revisionists, what a bunch of unmitigated hypocrites! I never read word 1 bagging Beamer until post-season this year, he was one of the very few Magpies who didn't seem to get slandered here much. As for Daisy & Heater, how short your memories are! For a start heater was DUMPED. He wanted to stay and promised to amend his behaviour but Buckley wanted the 'Rat pack' gone and he got his wish. The club said it was 'mutual' and Heater immediately denied that publicly. If Swan was a couple of years younger we would have lost him too. Daisy was in exactly the same position, he wanted to stay but Buckley wouldn't cop someone twice as popular as himself and made sure he went. If Collingwood had given him an offer anything like his worth he would've signed before the FA period started, he was dying to do so and end the speculation. Instead he was offered peanuts when he was one of the best players in the game. Leigh Matthews called him "arguably the best there is" in 2011 when there seemed to be two of him most games. That was the year he added an extreme work rate to his amazing skills, and right up to his last game for us last year his ability to read the game and find space was unparalleled. Clearly most of you have forgotten, but if you doubt me go watch his last full game against StKilda last year, go watch any final he played in. To judge him on his output at Carlton, where he obviously doesn't want to be, is ridiculous (but take a closer look at his games there, he was far from their worst). If he'd played for us in 2014 it would have been very different. He was the best reader of Pendles and Swan I ever saw. Just accept that you don't know the details of his departure and judge him on his football.

Then we have Maxy & Ball, among others, who left Collingwood because they knew they would keep getting injured under Buckley, like most of the side, but when you've passed 30 it gets harder to continue. Why do you think Ball said he'd play on at another club if the right offer came? If you Blind folks can't get it through your skulls that 3 straight years of injuries doesn't just 'happen', there is little hope for the future. By the time next years NAB ...'thing' is over we'll have one or two more injured players, will you STILL be bemoaning poor old Buckley's bad luck? Probably. And when you compare him to Bomber Thompson and Alistair Clarkson, who also took several years to get their clubs into contention, try to remember that they were given Dud clubs, Buckley was handed the reigning back-to-back Minor Premiers who everyone expected to go even better in 2012. We were outright flag favourites, and even the following year it was us or Hawthorn. This crap about us being 'in development' is just an excuse, as is the rubbish about accepting 'Short term pain'. That's just a free pass for Buckley! He can't lose! If we finish 14th it's "all part of the long term plan", if we make finals he's a hero! The guy can't lose simply because a small group (which unfortunately includes the President) simply won't face the fact that he can't coach. How many times have I asked for examples of the great coaching? How many times have the Blind Brigade changed the subject to me and my evil treachery??? As they'll do again. The fact is that the most common view among Magpie fans is a 'wait and see'. They'll give Buckley another year to see what he can do without injuries. The smaller groups are people like me who want him replaced while there's a replacement available, and the BB, who think he's been the best thing to happen to Collingwood since Jock McHale. Yes, these two groups make more noise than the much larger one, but I guess that's because we care more.

One of us however is behaving like the Cairo surf lifesavers club

"Here Here", fine ole chappy.
Eloquently stated and worth every word.

The Daisy stuff - pure gold Mr 35!

Others have the consistency of Yellow Jelly - wobble wobble.

Beams rarely, if ever, fired in the heat of big Finals, and that's what really makes a real champion, ala wayne carey, or steve kernahan, gary ablett senior, etc. He was simply not great in Finals, when it really counted. Sorry t burst your Beamer Bubble, but that's fact.

[collie dog]

Oh what a lot of twaddle! How DARE anyone suggest Beamer isn't an A-Grader! He is not only one of the top ten players in the game he was a goal-kicking mid, something we are seriously going to miss in 2015. And we certainly would've been paying him something like 800K next year, that's simply the going rate for elite mids. Bloody history revisionists, what a bunch of unmitigated hypocrites! I never read word 1 bagging Beamer until post-season this year, he was one of the very few Magpies who didn't seem to get slandered here much. As for Daisy & Heater, how short your memories are! For a start heater was DUMPED. He wanted to stay and promised to amend his behaviour but Buckley wanted the 'Rat pack' gone and he got his wish. The club said it was 'mutual' and Heater immediately denied that publicly. If Swan was a couple of years younger we would have lost him too. Daisy was in exactly the same position, he wanted to stay but Buckley wouldn't cop someone twice as popular as himself and made sure he went. If Collingwood had given him an offer anything like his worth he would've signed before the FA period started, he was dying to do so and end the speculation. Instead he was offered peanuts when he was one of the best players in the game. Leigh Matthews called him "arguably the best there is" in 2011 when there seemed to be two of him most games. That was the year he added an extreme work rate to his amazing skills, and right up to his last game for us last year his ability to read the game and find space was unparalleled. Clearly most of you have forgotten, but if you doubt me go watch his last full game against StKilda last year, go watch any final he played in. To judge him on his output at Carlton, where he obviously doesn't want to be, is ridiculous (but take a closer look at his games there, he was far from their worst). If he'd played for us in 2014 it would have been very different. He was the best reader of Pendles and Swan I ever saw. Just accept that you don't know the details of his departure and judge him on his football.

Then we have Maxy & Ball, among others, who left Collingwood because they knew they would keep getting injured under Buckley, like most of the side, but when you've passed 30 it gets harder to continue. Why do you think Ball said he'd play on at another club if the right offer came? If you Blind folks can't get it through your skulls that 3 straight years of injuries doesn't just 'happen', there is little hope for the future. By the time next years NAB ...'thing' is over we'll have one or two more injured players, will you STILL be bemoaning poor old Buckley's bad luck? Probably. And when you compare him to Bomber Thompson and Alistair Clarkson, who also took several years to get their clubs into contention, try to remember that they were given Dud clubs, Buckley was handed the reigning back-to-back Minor Premiers who everyone expected to go even better in 2012. We were outright flag favourites, and even the following year it was us or Hawthorn. This crap about us being 'in development' is just an excuse, as is the rubbish about accepting 'Short term pain'. That's just a free pass for Buckley! He can't lose! If we finish 14th it's "all part of the long term plan", if we make finals he's a hero! The guy can't lose simply because a small group (which unfortunately includes the President) simply won't face the fact that he can't coach. How many times have I asked for examples of the great coaching? How many times have the Blind Brigade changed the subject to me and my evil treachery??? As they'll do again. The fact is that the most common view among Magpie fans is a 'wait and see'. They'll give Buckley another year to see what he can do without injuries. The smaller groups are people like me who want him replaced while there's a replacement available, and the BB, who think he's been the best thing to happen to Collingwood since Jock McHale. Yes, these two groups make more noise than the much larger one, but I guess that's because we care more.

One of us however is behaving like the Cairo surf lifesavers club

"Here Here", fine ole chappy.
Eloquently stated and worth every word.

The Daisy stuff - pure gold Mr 35!

Others have the consistency of Yellow Jelly - wobble wobble.

That makes three of us Gentlemen. It's going to get very interesting at Collingwood over the next year. I wonder what the straw will be that breaks the camel's back. Will it be when Piesnchess stops licking the walls of Westpac Centre after our sixth straight loss and calls for the sacking of the coach (like he did after Round One in 2009)? Whatever, it won't be pretty and when the critical mass of Pies supporters turns, look out. At least we'll be able to say we climbed to the mountain top before them. I have looked over Jordan and I have seen the Promised Land (40 years away mind you, as it was for Moses).

[Pies4shaw]

That's the thing about calling for coaches to be sacked. It happens to virtually all of them in the end. It's a bit like saying your team won't win the premiership next year. That prediction is very likely to be right most years. That doesn't make it a useful, intelligent or informed prediction. Nor does it make you "right" when the "prediction" proves to be correct.

[HAL]

Oops. Too much data.

[Piesnchess]

Oh what a lot of twaddle! How DARE anyone suggest Beamer isn't an A-Grader! He is not only one of the top ten players in the game he was a goal-kicking mid, something we are seriously going to miss in 2015. And we certainly would've been paying him something like 800K next year, that's simply the going rate for elite mids. Bloody history revisionists, what a bunch of unmitigated hypocrites! I never read word 1 bagging Beamer until post-season this year, he was one of the very few Magpies who didn't seem to get slandered here much. As for Daisy & Heater, how short your memories are! For a start heater was DUMPED. He wanted to stay and promised to amend his behaviour but Buckley wanted the 'Rat pack' gone and he got his wish. The club said it was 'mutual' and Heater immediately denied that publicly. If Swan was a couple of years younger we would have lost him too. Daisy was in exactly the same position, he wanted to stay but Buckley wouldn't cop someone twice as popular as himself and made sure he went. If Collingwood had given him an offer anything like his worth he would've signed before the FA period started, he was dying to do so and end the speculation. Instead he was offered peanuts when he was one of the best players in the game. Leigh Matthews called him "arguably the best there is" in 2011 when there seemed to be two of him most games. That was the year he added an extreme work rate to his amazing skills, and right up to his last game for us last year his ability to read the game and find space was unparalleled. Clearly most of you have forgotten, but if you doubt me go watch his last full game against StKilda last year, go watch any final he played in. To judge him on his output at Carlton, where he obviously doesn't want to be, is ridiculous (but take a closer look at his games there, he was far from their worst). If he'd played for us in 2014 it would have been very different. He was the best reader of Pendles and Swan I ever saw. Just accept that you don't know the details of his departure and judge him on his football.

Then we have Maxy & Ball, among others, who left Collingwood because they knew they would keep getting injured under Buckley, like most of the side, but when you've passed 30 it gets harder to continue. Why do you think Ball said he'd play on at another club if the right offer came? If you Blind folks can't get it through your skulls that 3 straight years of injuries doesn't just 'happen', there is little hope for the future. By the time next years NAB ...'thing' is over we'll have one or two more injured players, will you STILL be bemoaning poor old Buckley's bad luck? Probably. And when you compare him to Bomber Thompson and Alistair Clarkson, who also took several years to get their clubs into contention, try to remember that they were given Dud clubs, Buckley was handed the reigning back-to-back Minor Premiers who everyone expected to go even better in 2012. We were outright flag favourites, and even the following year it was us or Hawthorn. This crap about us being 'in development' is just an excuse, as is the rubbish about accepting 'Short term pain'. That's just a free pass for Buckley! He can't lose! If we finish 14th it's "all part of the long term plan", if we make finals he's a hero! The guy can't lose simply because a small group (which unfortunately includes the President) simply won't face the fact that he can't coach. How many times have I asked for examples of the great coaching? How many times have the Blind Brigade changed the subject to me and my evil treachery??? As they'll do again. The fact is that the most common view among Magpie fans is a 'wait and see'. They'll give Buckley another year to see what he can do without injuries. The smaller groups are people like me who want him replaced while there's a replacement available, and the BB, who think he's been the best thing to happen to Collingwood since Jock McHale. Yes, these two groups make more noise than the much larger one, but I guess that's because we care more.

One of us however is behaving like the Cairo surf lifesavers club

"Here Here", fine ole chappy.
Eloquently stated and worth every word.

The Daisy stuff - pure gold Mr 35!

Others have the consistency of Yellow Jelly - wobble wobble.

That makes three of us Gentlemen. It's going to get very interesting at Collingwood over the next year. I wonder what the straw will be that breaks the camel's back. Will it be when Piesnchess stops licking the walls of Westpac Centre after our sixth straight loss and calls for the sacking of the coach (like he did after Round One in 2009)? Whatever, it won't be pretty and when the critical mass of Pies supporters turns, look out. At least we'll be able to say we climbed to the mountain top before them. I have looked over Jordan and I have seen the Promised Land (40 years away mind you, as it was for Moses).

Your comments are both inane, and pathetic, the mods say tone it down, clearly you ignore them. I hope you have egg all over your moosh if we can win around three out of our first six games, one would think an apology would be in order, but I wont hold my breath. No doubt you will be actually hoping and praying we lose all six games, sweating on it, just to somehow prove your insidious point right, youd love the Pies to lose, just to spite bucks, that's what it is isn't it sunshine. Perhaps youd better nick off and barrack for the dawks, that's where your peaheart belongs, and you know it does too.

[SuperSwede]

[John Wren]

[What'sinaname]

Also, assuming that the average career of a good to great player is about 12 years, give or take, you've got to expect to lose about a third over 4 years to retirement. Collingwood has lost slightly less than a third (6, rather than 7). So what you've got to focus on, objectively, is the other 6 who have left or been moved on. Here are my views on them, for what they are worth:

Wellingham was a loss - he covered the ground brilliantly over the first couple of paces at the stoppages. I would have preferred Collingwood keep him but I understand why they let him go.

Dawes wasn't a loss - but I would be the first to agree that the Club still doesn't have a centre-half forward (see my rants last year about Blair having to play as lead-up target, contest after contest, in some games because no-one over 6 feet tall could get to the spot).

Thomas might yet prove to be a loss, if he comes good. His best football was played in 2010. He played more patchily but at a high level in 2011. He was one who could hold his head up after the GF loss. He hasn't played much good footy since then, either under Buckley or under the other chap. Would it be desirable to be paying him now the $750K per year he got from the Blooz? No, I think not. On balance, I am pleased Collingwood didn't match the offer - it would have inflated all sorts of player expectations that simply couldn't be met by the Club. On what I saw this year, I wouldn't want him back.

Heater was a great loss and his 2014 showed that he is still a fine player. I didn't like that deal when it was done - but it's hard to argue the toss between a 29 year old half-back flanker and the inside mid the Club wants to play for the next decade. Of the 6 of them, I miss Heater the most.

The 2014 version of H isn't a great loss. He was, once, close to my favourite player. By the middle of 2011, I'd given up on him and I think we've seen a steady decline. His efforts on Steve Johnson on GF day 2011 were unacceptable. Still a good contributor, now - but I think his best is probably behind him. He'll play plenty of good footy over the next year or two but I doubt much if any of it will be (or would have been) played in finals. I expect him to be done by the end of 2017. Varcoe's probably more or less a value for value replacement. That said, I'd probably prefer to have neither, at this stage.

Beams is clearly a loss but he isn't a great loss. I understand that I am in the minority in thinking this. It's not a new view. I never much cared for his style of play and have been openly questioning his position in the team since 2011. He is a classic example of a player too readily embraced by the Club's supporters. He's a good, solid player probably a B or a B+, certainly not an A grader. I think the Club has probably gained much more than it lost by letting him go, unless pick 5 turns out to be a complete spud. In any event, he couldn't have been paid the sum Brisbane was offering. The deal is apparently of the $800K to $900K per year variety. We might have kept him for 2015 but, if that sort of money was available next year, he would have fled.

So, in total, what we're talking about is 6 players, 2 of whom I would rather the Club had kept. Allowing for the possibility that the Collingwood football department might understand this better than me, I'm happy to accept what they did with Heater and Wellers - and I actively agree with each of the other 4 decisions.

Wow, in 2012 he won the Copeland, won the 3AW player of the year and finished 4th in the MVP behind Ablett, Watson & Cotchin (I think). If the player rated the 4th best in the game that year isn't A-grade I don't know what is.

2013 was a write-off of a year due to injury and this year he was a rare touch of class on numerous occasions and finished 2 points off 2nd in the Copeland. He is A-grade every day of the week, and that's not just a biased pies view. Ask other supporters, other players, other coaches; he is A GRADE.

Beams has always been shit. We knew it all along, we just drove up his price to extract the most out of the Brisbane trade. If Brissy we're on the ball, they would have only offered a 3rd round pick coz that's all Beams is really worth.

Back on planet Earth. We lost an A-grade star. He may not be worth $800,000 to us but it still makes him an A-grade player. A goal kicking mid who can both play in and under and outside is a huge loss for us. It'll be more apparent when we struggle to kick 10 goals a game in 2015 and wonder why our midfield don't score goals.

[John Wren]

av. of a bit over one goal a game. would we even notice?

[Pies4shaw]

Not if we ever make a final - because there he only averages 0.25 goals per game.

I don't think they're A-graders until they can do the same job against the best opposition. Beams hasn't so far.

[John Wren]

av. of a bit over one goal a game. would we even notice?

just did some quick research, of pendles, swans, sidey and beams only beams has a goal kcking average above one per game. this surprised me. further to this, fyfe, selwood and co av. approx one goal per a game.

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

Arguably the 2 best players in the game left for other clubs in recent seasons. Guess what happened? The club they left behind wins the flag the following year. Now we're probably a fair way off flag material but by the same token Beams is a fair way off the best player in the comp. Those 2 players? G. Ablett and B. Franklin. No one is indispensable

[Breadcrawl]

I don't think we are so far off flag material.

But that is a great point, well made Frankie

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

I don't really think so either. Was being ultra conservative cos I really couldn't be bothered responding to the negative nellies trying to argue otherwise.