Trade Targets ~ Free Agency & MSD player discussion

[Pies2016]

^^^
Funny you say this. I was watching the Swans game last night and I actually googled about Warner’s junior career just to better understand as to why he went so late in the draft. While his non selection by most other clubs appears somewhat bemusing, the main criticism should be aimed at the two WA clubs who had him in their own back yard and couldn’t identify his talent.
To be fair, there’s a lot of layers that go into choosing players on draft night but on the surface, Warners non selection ( before #39 ) will go down as an opportunity lost by most clubs. All clubs have their draft skeletons but they don’t come out anywhere near as often while you’re winning.
Also as an aside, we need to remember, all of Gulden, Mills, Heeney and Blakey were selected under the Academy rules of the day.

Is this officially a “ spiral “ ?

[LaurieHolden]

^^^
Funny you say this. I was watching the Swans game last night and I actually googled about Warner’s junior career just to better understand as to why he went so late in the draft.

And one pick ahead of our pick #40 Jay Rantall.
2019 was a decent draft year, that top 20! https://www.draftguru.com.au/years/2019

[stui magpie]

Toby Murray is in the MSD, younger brother of Sam who we had but he had an unfortunate issue with the sniffles. Toby is a 200cm ruck forward and I think only 19. Anyone seen him?
Brynn Teakle, who trained with us preseason is also available. I thought he looked all right in the pre season training.
Arlo Draper who we tried to turn into a full back then delisted is playing FF for Carlton's VFL team.
Geelong Falcons Ruckman Joe Pike is another tall option
Other tall forwards in the mix include Noah Howes (South Adelaide), Jasper Scaife (West Perth) and Remy Maclean (Eastern Ranges).
From what I read, Scaife seems a prospect but may be going to Norf.

Anybody got any intel on any of these boys?

Draper at Carlton Reserves is simply incorrect. He is back at South Adelaide in the SANFL hoping to get re-drafted.

Yeah, sorry, that was Liam McMahon I was thinking of.

[stui magpie]

Stui, I posted elsewhere about Pike and McLean both being 19 year olds, both playing as ruck / forwards and having had very good seasons to date. Collingwood seem to like giving 19 year old talls a chance outside of the main draft ( Begg, Steene ) and they do it on the basis of getting in early in their belief they would likely be selected in the next N D. If Collingwood think either of this two have plenty of upside, I wouldn’t surprise me if they choose one at the MSD ( assuming they haven’t gone already ) Pikes name has been thrown around a bit this year, while McLeans profile has been kept more in the background. Supposedly McLean is more a key forward, than ruck and a lot of that is because he has the reputation of being a very reliable kick at goal.

Cheers mate.

Seems like McLean played key back last year and is mainly playing key forward this year. At 196cm he's big enough to play KPF.

[Said by Zed]

[quote="Said by Zed"]It’s probably been posted before but there’s still a fair bit of unrestricted free agent gold yet to be mined in 2024 with several players coming out of contract….could fill some big holes borne out of delisting and either voluntary or forced retirement of a few of our ageing highly paid stars at the end of the season…should have significant $$$ left over to throw at potentials like:

* Elliott Himmelberg (ADL) 199 cm / 99 kg / 26 yrs forward
* Hugh McCluggage (BRIS)185 cm / 84 kg / 26 yrs mid - restricted free agent
* Bailey Banfield (FREO) 190 cm / 88 kg / 26 yrs forward
* Matt Taberner (FREO) 199 cm / 97 kg / 30 yrs forward
* Isaac Cumming (GWS) 188 cm / 84 kg / 25 yrs defender / mid
* Adam Tomlinson (MEL) 194 cm / 95 kg / 30 yrs defender
* Cam Zurhaar (NTH MEL) 190 cm / 91 kg / 25 yrs forward - restricted free agent
* Josh Battle (STK) 193 cm / 93 kg / 25 yrs defender

And if Wrighty could somehow conjure up some sort of trading miracle, obviously one or two of Bailey Smith, Jamarra Ugle-Hagen, and Logan McDonald from the non-free agents list.

For mine I’d be looking to fortify our defence with relatively cheap gettables such as Josh Battle, Adam Tomlinson, and Isaac Cumming. Taberner or Himmelberg would give us that big marking target forward. And although I rate him, don’t think we could or should pay the big $$$ required for McCluggage which would also involve significant trade equity we don’t have.

So, best case scenario is we are somehow able to snag McDonald and Bailey Smith and three or four of the gettables mentioned above….possibly Battle, Cumming and Himmelberg…would be very happy with that

[The Black and White Lion]

love the recruitment aspiration. With 7 players in that's 7 spots we need to clear.

Assuming Kreuger, Carmichael and Johnson are out, who are the other 4 you need to cut to make this drive happen? Is this a mix of forced retirements or are we culling some of the emerging young blood too?

Assuming all of Sullivan, Harrison, Dean and Parker will be retained and Richards gets a new deal. Eyre looked good in the VFL and pre-season so see no need to de-list and waste all the work done to date, gets another deal for me. Condon gets a CatB deal too.

Ryan hasn't done much in 2024. Demattia was good in his first game back but is learning post the injury. Jiath has an ankle injury at the moment but looked good til then. Begg and Steene both done for injuries and seemingly too short for AFL ruck but worth persevering with one of them for a KF or KB role. Begg is competitive and feisty in the contest and we want to see that from forwards but no good in the ruck against bigger taller frames.

[Said by Zed]

^

I like what you’re putting down. Disagree strongly re Begg though. I’ve watched him in several games last year and this season and his performances to date have been consistently underwhelming. He is more impetuous and bratty than competitive and feisty. He makes Josh Schache look like Jonno Brown…He is weak and far too easily out muscled and pushed under the ball, loses his feet far too often ending up on his knees most of the time belying his size and weight. Has limited footy smarts and forward craft is near to non-existent.

At this stage of our premiership window and the fact we will not have access to top end draft talent for some time we need to be both ruthless and aggressive with our trading strategy - cull the never will be list cloggers and use $$$ and potential of premiership success to entice quality established talent who want out from their current situations.

That said, I agree with Krueger, Ash, and Carmichael out. Obviously Murph is gone. Ed Allan has shown nothing much so far so he’s out too. Bytel on notice. Begg gone - see reasons above. Fin Macrae does not fit our style of play and should be packaged up in whatever deal we can put together to get Bailey Smith. Depending on the outcome of this season I envisage one or maybe two of Howe, Mitchell, or Sidey ( mind you this won’t be easy, I love these guys, but that’s the definition of ruthlessness) to be graciously retired.

So, that leaves us with at least 8 and maybe up to 11 spots to fill.

Pick up Teakle and maybe someone like Hately in MSD.

Pick up Himmelberg, Battle, Cumming, and Banfield as Unrestricted Free Agents.

Somehow get a deal done for Bailey Smith.

Go to National draft and pick up the best kids available with our meagre draft hand.

Get this done, or something similar, and we’re set for the next several years. Have added ruck support with Teakle and hoping Steene develops further. Himmelberg and Banfield (medium forward) come in to bolster our forward ranks joining McStay and Mihocek. Battle and Cumming go into the backline allowing Moore to be freed up and play his best role. Smith and Hately to strengthen the mids numbers and give more time for our kids to develop more.

How’s that?

[Pies2016]

^^^
Free agency was introduced as a way of players being able to maximise their potential earnings during a small employment window.
Nearly all free agents who swap clubs, go to the destination club who bids the most for their services. You make it sound as though Collingwood is the only club who is looking to improve their list. We would be fortunate to secure two ( quality ) free agents, simply because there are many other clubs who are also looking to improve their list. It would only need two clubs to be red hot on the same player and automatically, whoever wins the bidding war is committing to overs, contract wise. If you want to put the bulk of your playing group out of joint, then simply start paying any new players way more than what they’re worth.

[Said by Zed]

[quote="Pies2016"]^^^Really? Is that what free agency was introduced for? Who would have thunk it that other teams might also be in the market. You learn something every day.

Here’s another gem you’re probably also aware of. List strategies were introduced to maximise most available talent to achieve best possible outcomes and success. Sometimes clubs play overs to get who they want if they suit their requirements and sometimes players take unders to play for a big club and play finals and possibly win premierships. I believe the term that has been used to describe it is ‘moneyball’.

I think you might be a bit naive if you think players end up with the highest bidder….if that were the case ‘big fish’ such as Judd, Brown, Riewoldt, Lynch (to name but a few) all would have been Pies. There’s way more to acquiring free agents than just $$$. AFL players are generally competitive beasts and if they haven’t already they want to achieve ultimate success. That’s the way the cookie crumbles.

[WhyPhilWhy?]

If you’re 195cm or taller and able to stand up when it comes to our MSD draft pick, you’re coming to Collingwood.

[Pies2016]

^

You still haven’t told me how Collingwood is going to acquire FIVE free agents in one off season (and that doesn’t even include your Bailey Smith trade acquisition)

[inxs88]

^

Reckon we shall clear space with 8 off the list come season's end:
1. Begg: delist
2. Steene: delist
3. Bytel: delist
4. Carmichael: delist
5. Kreuger: delist
6. Johnson: trade required as contracted next year
7. Steele: retired off
8. Murphy: retired

Markov: 50/50 to get another deal.

[The Black and White Lion]

Yeah we're all there abouts aren't we.
Best chance of a trade for Johnson is with the crows in my mind right now. Elliot Himmelberg to the GWS or us via FA leaves a hole in their forward line. They could look for a medium tall like Johnson and that could net us a 3rd round pick at best (very optimistic thinking)
Perhaps Fin Macrae the only one with some draft capital albeit late 2nd or 3rd pick at best now if we're lucky (probably optimistic again). Maybe that's a way to dilute a potential trade with the dogs for Bailey Smith given we have pretty much nought for this year and few first round draft pick opportunities left before the Tassie Devils squeeze.

[Pep]

"Collingwood have interest in Bombers forward Harrison Jones. Currently OOC, expect the forward to repay the faith from Essendon but Pies looking at tall options."
From Pie Source on X (twitter)

[stui magpie]

If you’re 195cm or taller and able to stand up when it comes to our MSD draft pick, you’re coming to Collingwood.

And we'll have a space in the injury/rehab group reserved for them.