Trade Targets ~ Free Agency & MSD player discussion

[LaurieHolden]

Is Bailey Smith on Geelong's radar?

Geelong and Hawthorn. Smith is currently in a unique position at the Bulldogs, in that his ultimate value at the dogs will likely be determined by the retention ( or not ) of both Ugle - Hagen and English.

As per Pies2016 comments re Bulldogs contract dominoes, maybe the word filtering through to the journos is priority has been given to Nuaghton, English and Ugle-Hagan.

“I think Collingwood has emerged as the clear frontrunner to secure Bailey Smith’s services next year,” Landsberger told Fox Footy’s Midweek Tackle on Wednesday night.
Source:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/ ... bf47864fcc

[Pies2016]

We have qualified and participated in 11 Preliminary Finals since 2022.

I think your math might be a bit out mate…probably just a typo…but had me wondering for a few seconds what had I missed and if I was watching the wrong games

I’m not sure of the Brisbane Lions / Wanganeen connection either but two players stand out in INXS list above. Judd and Kennedy and I often ask Blues supporters whether think they might have been better served if they never pursued the Judd trade and kept Kennedy and pick #3 instead.
Judd had no success at Carlton of course and Kennedy went on to play good footy for a number of years longer than Judd and also a premiership with the Eagles.

[piffdog]

The question is how do we get Bailey Smith? Is he a free agent? Is a matter of cash or do we have to trade players/picks? Club has come out and said they done want to be trading away picks anymore have they?

[Take_a_Screamer]

from the article...
"He’s done his knee, and he’s been inconsistent since that (2021) finals series,” the Herald Sun’s Jay Clark pointed out. Landsberger suggested a future first and second could be enough to land Smith."

[Pies2016]

The question is how do we get Bailey Smith? Is he a free agent? Is a matter of cash or do we have to trade players/picks? Club has come out and said they done want to be trading away picks anymore have they?

It would need to be a trade and a decent one at that. There will be only three options available. We either include our future first rounder ( 2025 ) as the major part of any trade OR both Hawthorns 2024 second and third round picks ( from the Ginnivan trade ) and a little more again. The club can say whatever they want about being active while still keeping their early picks but the reality is that can’t happen with any trades involving QUALITY players who aren’t free agents ( unless we were to trade out a decent player or two ) The third option is that we may choose to trade out a best 22 player and then in turn, use that trade capital as the major component of any Smith trade.
There’s a lot to play out here because both Smith and Geelong are sponsored by Cotton On. There’s already a connection of sorts and Geelong may yet work with Cotton On to ensure that Smiths exposure and financial benefits via C O are significantly increased if he were to be a Geelong player.

[LaurieHolden]

^we have zero trade currency in 2024 from players coming out of contract. Our 2024 organic draft points with pick no's 22*, 40, 44 = total 1636
(pick #22 received from Hawthorn in 2023 - swapped with pick #26)

I remain hopeful that the AFL grant might yet set a precedent and grant us a draft concession off the retirement of Murphy, given it was an AFL panel ruling.

AFL clubs are subject to certain rules regarding the trading of draft picks. One key rule is that clubs must make at least **two first-round selections in each four-year period.
This means they cannot trade away all their first-round picks within that timeframe. Additionally, when it comes to draft picks, clubs can only trade picks from **that year and the next year.

So to my point. If we're going to get a seat at the negotiating table in 2024 for the likes of a Bailey Smith, given we've traded our organic 2024 draft points via our 1st rounder to Freo. we'd need to draw from 2025 where our organic draft points remain uncompromised. Or trade a player.
Of our 2025 out of contact list, the only players we have that presents tangible 1st round trade currency are Hill and Maynard.
It will be natural for each to be looking for longer term deals. This is where I think it'll get interesting with Maynard. If we want a future first from a player swap only, he's the one Clubs will be asking the question over.
2nd round trade currency might be then derived from Frampton, Jiath, Johnson, Harrison, Macrae, Parker.

Ash Johnson Non-Free Agent
Billy Frampton Non-Free Agent
Bobby Hill Non-Free Age
Brayden Maynard Unrestricted Free Agent
Brody Mihocek Restricted Free Agent
Finlay Macrae Non-Free Agent
Harvey Harrison Non-Free Agent
Jamie Elliott Unrestricted Free Agent
Mason Cox Unrestricted Free Agent
Tew Jiath Non-Free Agent
Tom Mitchell Non-Free Agent
Wil Parker Non-Free Agent

Of our 2026 out of contact list, we're left with what are currently 2nd rounders, although hoping Ed Allan really starts to push into senior selection to become a top tier prospect.

Darcy Cameron Non-Free Agent
Edward Allan Non-Free Agent
Harry Demattia Non-Free Agent
Jack Crisp Unrestricted Free Agent
Jakob Ryan Non-Free Agent
John Noble Restricted Free Agent

Before the b&w toys get thrown from the cot on the prospect of trading Maynard, all of those already howling for a KPF, KPD, what are you going to going to trade with in order to secure one? As it stands, we can cover a player like Maynard, that's not where our deficit lies.
Otherwise, it's the equivalent of taking Australian Dollars into the USA on holidays and expecting like for like. You either have to go without or dip into future savings.
We keep banging on about the veteran quandary, we'll there's 7 players in the departure lounge we need to replace in two years. We'll have the $$$, just missing the organic draft capital.
Replacing the caliber of those veteran players will require emotion to be put aside in order to bring in the 4 players in the 75-125 game mark and 2-3 free-agent guns over the next 2 years, all before the Devils raid the draft in 2027.

[piedys]

A considered reply Dyso.
I'm amazed we've been able to compete as well as we have, let alone winning #16 given that draft / trade pedigree.
I view Hine has done a remarkable job with the hand he's been dealt.
The draft is chook lotto at the best of times.

That's two of us amazed Coach!
Two flags under his watch from four attempts suggests drafters/recruiters are doing/have done something right.
It's the catastrophic draft periods that stopped more silverware manifesting.
The drafting of two identified cripples ahead of Patrick Cripps in 2013, the most damning to the 2018 flag outcome.

Trusting Wrighty has done the work over the past 2 years to have some ready names to fill some list holes before he clears out his desk on return from his sabbatical.
Like Murphy, I think we know Wrighty is unlikely to request a carpark at the 'whatever we're calling it now' Centre in 2025.
I reckon he'll spend more time on the Spirt of Tasmania than Tram 70 to our current headquarters.

I'm holding out hope that we might snaffle Holmes over from Geebung for nothing [Henry-type currency pick].
I know of no gettable tall KPF or KPD that might request a trade at seasons end however.
Most annoying that Himmelberg couldnt be poached from GWS at end of 2023 as we'd hoped; I'd have liked The Baron in #27 at Pies.
Hines obvious miss of Riccardi some years back also gets my goat.
How much will the next Mickey Dimmish, Andy Payne etc cost us again?

Speaking of KPF - Drafted: Round 1, Pick #9 2015 National Draft by Melbourne Demons Height: 197cm Weight: 99kg. Yes please you say?
Sam Weideman - Melbourne > Essendon. Into his 9th season and can't crack a game for Essendon in 2024. Goalless again in R3 VFL over the weekend after 2 goals in R2 the week prior and 1 behind in R1.

Okay, so onto the enigmatic consistantly inconsistant Weideman ...
By now we have sacrified pick #7 at the Altar of Stupidity for Treloar.
Brisbane pissed theirs into the pyre for Schache. Seriously?
So we now have a hypothetical as to who we might have got; we therefore missed our choice of Weid, Harry McKay, Ben McKay or Charlie Curnow.
Horrifyingly, Carlton got it right, and still might nap #17 this season as a result.
You can bet Melbourne rue their call as well.
However, I was all for taking him for a jatz cracker pick late 2022, as Dopers eventually did. I'd be surprised if he sees out his contract there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_AFL_draft

1 1 Jacob Weitering Carlton Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup
1 2 Josh Schache Brisbane Lions Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup
1 3 Callum Mills Sydney North Shore Sydney AFL Academy player; Melbourne's bid matched with picks 33, 36, 37 and 43[128]
1 4 Clayton Oliver Melbourne Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup Traded from Gold Coast
1 5 Darcy Parish Essendon Geelong Falcons TAC Cup
1 6 Aaron Francis Essendon West Adelaide SANFL Traded from St Kilda
1 7 Jacob Hopper Greater Western Sydney North Ballarat Rebels TAC Cup Academy player; Gold Coast's bid matched with pick 11[128]
1 8 Callum Ah Chee Gold Coast South Fremantle WAFL Traded from Melbourne
1 9 Sam Weideman Melbourne Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Traded from Greater Western Sydney; received from Collingwood
1 10 Harry McKay Carlton Gippsland Power TAC Cup Traded from Greater Western Sydney
1 11 Wayne Milera Adelaide Central District SANFL Traded from Geelong
1 12 Charlie Curnow Carlton Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Traded from Western Bulldogs

talent pool dimishes past these picks, with limited access to to academy eligability...

1 13 Matthew Kennedy Greater Western Sydney Collingullie-Glenfield Park RFNL Academy player; Richmond's bid matched with picks 34 and 40[128]
1 14 Eric Hipwood Brisbane Lions Aspley NEAFL Academy player; Richmond's bid matched with picks 36 and 37[128]
1 15 Daniel Rioli Richmond North Ballarat Rebels TAC Cup
1 16 Harrison Himmelberg Greater Western Sydney Mangoplah-CUE RFNL Academy player; Adelaide's bid matched with picks 48, 50, 55 and 59[128]

some gold left to fossick for..

1 17 Tom Doedee Adelaide Geelong Falcons TAC Cup
1 18 Jade Gresham St Kilda Northern Knights TAC Cup Traded from Sydney
1 19 Ryan Burton Hawthorn North Adelaide SANFL Traded from North Melbourne
1 20 Brayden Fiorini Gold Coast Northern Knights TAC Cup Traded from Fremantle
1 21 Ben McKay North Melbourne Gippsland Power TAC Cup Traded from Brisbane Lions; received from West Coast
1 22 Kieran Lovell Hawthorn Kingborough TSL
1 23 David Cuningham Carlton Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Traded from Richmond; received from Gold Coast; received from Greater Western Sydney via a trade in 2012; received from Fremantle in 2011; compensation pick from 2011 (Palmer)
2 24 Ben Keays Brisbane Lions Brisbane Lions NEAFL Academy player; Western Bulldogs' bid matched with Brisbane's next pick[128]
2 25 Josh Dunkley Western Bulldogs Gippsland Power TAC Cup Traded from Carlton; father-son eligible (son of Andrew Dunkley), but Sydney did not match bid[128]
2 26 Kieran Collins Western Bulldogs Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup Traded from Carlton; received from Brisbane Lions
2 27 Darcy Tucker Fremantle North Ballarat Rebels TAC Cup Traded from Gold Coast
2 28 Luke Partington West Coast Norwood SANFL Traded from Sydney; received from Essendon
2 29 Alex Morgan Essendon Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Traded from St Kilda
2 30 Mason Redman Essendon Glenelg SANFL Traded from Melbourne
2 31 Ryan Clarke North Melbourne Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Traded from Brisbane Lions; received from Collingwood
2 32 Brayden Sier Collingwood Northern Knights TAC Cup Traded from Greater Western Sydney

onto our later picks, for serviceable players: Phillips, Wills and Crock...

3 54 Mitch Brown Essendon Sandringham VFL Traded from West Coast
4 55 Sam Collins Fremantle Box Hill VFL Traded from Gold Coast
4 56 Jordan Dawson Sydney Sturt SANFL
4 57 Kurt Mutimer West Coast Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup Traded from Essendon
4 58 Tom Phillips Collingwood Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup
4 59 Ryan Gardner Geelong Burnie TSL
4 60 Declan Mountford North Melbourne Claremont WAFL
4 61 Shane Yarran Fremantle Subiaco WAFL
4 62 Matthew Allen West Coast Glenelg SANFL
5 63 Rupert Wills Collingwood Collingwood VFL Traded from Greater Western Sydney; received from Carlton
5 64 Yestin Eades Essendon North Ballarat Rebels TAC Cup
5 65 Ben Crocker Collingwood Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup
5 66 Sam Menegola Geelong Subiaco WAFL
5 67 Nathan Broad Richmond Swan Districts WAFL
6 68 Michael Hartley Essendon Coburg VFL

All ancient history sure, but Carlton's windfall to get this one right might send us all into a nightmare by seasons end 2024.

[piedys]

[Pies2016]

Sharenberg, Freeman and Langdon. All had real potential but from memory only Langdon played in 2018 GF. Is that right?

A fit and seasoned Freeman and Scharenberg might have been the difference but neither stayed injury free for significant periods in order to fulfill their potential.

Bonafide cripples prior to their drafting. We were warned.
Neither in the class of Cripps.

I will give you the FACTS on Freeman because I coached him at U16 level. He and his family were also my next door neighbour for a number of years. Firstly Freeman never had a soft tissue injury during his time at either U16 or U18 level.
Because I coached him at U16 level, Rendell spoke to me as part of the clubs diligence required for collecting the social profiles of all potential prospects. Rendell said at the time they were very keen on Salem ( Freeman’s Dragons team mate ) They felt his ball use and composure made him more desirable than Freeman but the club had also put a priority on speed as an immediate need. At the time we spoke, the final draft order hadn’t been finalised, so it was more about collecting information before they prepared their selection order. It’s history now that Dees picked Salem at pick 9 and our recruiters then went with satisfying the need for speed fixation with Freeman at #10. Freeman was lightning quick for a player of his build but lacked composure and was one sided. Freeman’s ( Hailbury ) stocks also rose when he torched Salem ( Brighton Grammar ) in an APS game during their draft year.
To your point, on the night when he was picked at ten, I remember saying to myself, he doesn’t strike me as the tenth best junior in the country. That nasty hammy in the last practice match before the season started didn’t help either but it should also be remembered another club, StKilda also thought he would make it.
Langdon was another Dragon and an inspired selection in the sixties whose career was cut short with degenerative knee (s). I saw a bit of Langdon as an U18 and he was pretty underwhelming, so when they selected him on the night, I almost thought they called out the wrong name. While all recruiters get it wrong at some point, they should also be congratulated for identifying talent when no one else sees it. Win some, lose some and that will never change.

[stui magpie]

We've apparently stated we want to bring in top talent, but we want to keep top draft picks and use free agency, so that lets out baily Smith and Ugle Hagen.
Rory Lobb is a more realistic target, with Sam Darcy and the others, the Dogs might be happy to get his salary off the books.

[The Black and White Lion]

Great intel on Freeman thanks for sharing. Langdon inspired right from his debut in defence at the old Telstra Dome vs the Eagles I think. We got belted and he was the one shining light.

Lobb seems an obvious target for a few teams but I’m not really sure. Inconsistent tall. Goes missing for huge chunks of the season. Made Tabener look good at Freo. Never was sure why he left GWS I think that was a career mistake in the long run. He did have a day out in 2022 against the dogs at Marvel kicking about 5 from the pockets close to the 50m line but has been more off than on for me.

Would prefer a strong physical FWD ruck but in the absence of one available, I’m still sure that I don’t want Lobb

[inxs88]

We have qualified and participated in 11 Preliminary Finals since 2022.

I think your math might be a bit out mate…probably just a typo…but had me wondering for a few seconds what had I missed and if I was watching the wrong games

2002 apologies

[Take_a_Screamer]

^ LH, talk of trading heart and soul Maynard out seems sacrilegious to me.
It gives me heart papitations. This must NOT happen.

[LaurieHolden]

^so that's it? No objectivity to the post or would removing a player like Maynard send the wrong message to the group or shake the DNA of the Club and what it stands for?
Does loyalty to a player outweigh wanting to obtain a Key Position player or group to build a list to win for a decade?
Is Maynard so critical to our requirements he's untouchable? Will you then give him 4 more years at $750k because he's a favourite son?
Or do you wait until Maynard is 30 and then decide he's superfluous to our future and retain him on $600-$750k per year?
Will he be a key cog in our efforts to secure top 4 berths through to 2030?

Pose this, you're list manager. The managers of Logan MacDonald, Jed Walter or Max King suggest they are gettable. They want a 1st round pick and a player. Maynard has been put forward. You decline because of emotion of letting one player go.
The howls of posters on match day if we are losing and jump to grind any of our players into the dirt seems to suggest no-one is sacred. This is what irks me with the match day numpties, criticism without a solution is akin to throwing rocks at your own window.

[Take_a_Screamer]

We are in the premiership window. Maynard has been a successful member of our backline for a few years. The players know each other well and the team are a close knit group. I would not underestimate this in bringing home the big prize should it be this year and/or the next.

Looking ahead to the next couple of years I would rate stability over disruption for some future plan (unless we go South and start losing a lot of games). I think loyalty to a player and team unity does count heaps. This is what Fly's message is. Maybe talk of Bailey coming to join Collingwood will be more of a negative if the deal involves "panic buying". Winning the next flag very soon must take priority over eagerly topping up on expensive players. We did this already to some extent with Schultz (and lost Ginnivan).

IMHO, Even tough the business side of team management is important, we must not deviate from our paradigm, "side by side".