Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Tannin]

^ What are the Trots doing in bed with criminal Fascists like Putin?

Trotsky was a great man in his own way - not without fault (few of us are), but a great man.

He would weep to see what Putin's mouthpieces are saying in his name.

[Magpietothemax]

^ What are the Trots doing in bed with criminal Fascists like Putin?

Trotsky was a great man in his own way - not without fault (few of us are), but a great man.

He would weep to see what Putin's mouthpieces are saying in his name.

I will be blunt: you are an abject liar if you claim that the Trotskyists have any sympathy for Putin.

[David]

[Magpietothemax]

[pietillidie]

Great find, David. Most of that blog post, including its survey data, aligns with what I've picked indirectly from both snippets over time and detailed analyses, and even nights at the pub with Ukrainians before effing Brexit (one of the underrated reasons, I'd suggest, that the UK has such an intuitive affinity with Ukraine, despite the overt Eastern European and pan-Slavic racism of the Brexit movement).

Malignant narcissists co-opting life-or-death matters to feed their bottomless emptiness and desire is one of the biggest problems we face today. It's happening problem after problem, issue after issue, such that every issue is at risk of triggering something far worse. The bigger and more critical the problem, the better for narcissistic vampirism by definition.

Actual, complex, distant, seriously high-risk situations are hard enough to get at without two sets of shrieking nutcases in your ear.

And this:

[David]

[pietillidie]

^That's hilarious. I didn't even consider for half a second who the hell the author is because I simply don't care; the only criterion is that what he says is sensible in the context of the credible information, data, logic and experience.

And there's MttMax, fretting over the chap's doctrinal purity according to whatever sects mill about the Holy World Narcissist Web Site [TM].

The cringeworthy stuff that exercises cult members. Do these people have so little world experience and self-awareness, they can't even detect that they're as satirically cringeworthy as the most in-bred evangelical church ever dreamed up?

You could swap out the word 'baptist' for 'socialist' and create a site called Landover Socialist.

There's absolutely nothing to learn in that entire weirdo world unless you're studying the pscyhopathology of cults. All those joules of passion burned to create ever-finer taxonomies of purity to avoid the self in the mirror and manufacture a frisson of self-efficacy and acceptance. MAGA must be green with envy of the avid devotion to self-avoidance.

People, if that's your thing, get counselling, FFS. Life will be over before you realise that mummy and daddy's approval is simply not out there somewhere.

[Magpietothemax]

^ You seem upset

[pietillidie]

^Perhaps joining a cult might help?

[Magpietothemax]

I didn't even consider for half a second who the hell the author is because I simply don't care; ; the only criterion is that what he says is sensible in the context of the credible information

Translation: you will accept any information as long as it confirms your own preestablished views.
Anything that contradicts your preestablished views must not merely be rejected automatically, but condemned as "cultist". Reflects not just a closed mind, but extreme nervousness.

In answer to your question as to what might help, anti-anxiety medications might be of assistance.

[pietillidie]

^But the bit you quoted completely contradicts that:

...the only criterion is that what he says is sensible in the context of the credible information

So, it's clear I will accept any credible contrary information and incorporate it into a model for understanding the conflict and canvassing potential solutions. Absolutely anything credible.

That's why I've quoted a wide range of information already, repeating the caveat that I'm still not happy with the information we have so far.

Your quoting of the field equivalent of The Watchtower does nothing to convince anyone you have the requisite experience and learning to simply 'know' these things intuitively.

What do you expect people to do? Trust you and the notoriously unemployable, unqualified, ill-disciplined crazies you quote, sans professional track record and history of accountability, contrary to credible mainstream views, in the absence of proof, data and method, and in contradiction of the basic fact that Russia has invaded Ukraine, because you insist that they're right?

The normal starting point is the scope of basic and credible mainstream information, data, models and views first. Both David and myself have quoted a wide range of those, for which you're yet to account.

Simply crying 'American conspiracy' doesn't do away with the recent history of Eastern Europe and Ukraine's neighbours; Yanukovych's failure to ratify EU Association Agreement and the Euromaidan protests; Yanukovych's monstrous corruption and Russian lackey status; Ukrainian opinion as we know it to date; Russia's actual explicit policy and Putin's recently reiterated imperialist desires and racist views of Ukrainian history; the clear fact that absolutely no one could invade fortress nuclear Russia; Russian bullying and blackmail of the region and global economy; the views of Ukraine's Eastern European neighbbours and the EU; and everything we know about the very simple reality that Russia violently invaded Ukraine.

Yet there you are, dismissing all of that reality, as if Ukraine has no voice, rights and will, and Ukrainians are lesser dimwits, as Putin holds.

Once you've properly accounted for that basic reality, and then canvassed all of the credible mainstream views on the matter, then you are justified suggesting alternative models, using that credible information and data.

But you've skipped all of that analysis and consideration, and jumped straight to the conspiratorial lunatic fringe, majoring in nonsense and part-truth, and dismissing the vast scope of mainstream, credible views across a number of well-developed specialities, with a wave of your hand.

It's not that hard: when you're not a specialist, and you don't have that much field experience, start with the basic facts first, then move to the most credible specialists and sources, compile them, analyse them, and weigh them against the experience that credible others and then you yourself have, if indeed you have such experience, and work out from there.

Your approach is the equivalent of jumping to experimental therapy or faith healing before you've even considered and tested mainline treatments. Or fervently dismissing climate science and the credible climate consensus as if you know better when you can't even pass the high school maths to get into a general science degree to even begin to specialise in climate science.

No one in any respected professional or organisational context works like that, and for good reason.

[Magpietothemax]

[pietillidie]

^And still we await for you to deal with the known, credible basic facts and data.

And wait.

And wait some more.

And we know you won't, because it's too hard for pea-brained Marxism to cope with details when you can simply shout 'capitalism'.

No one cares about cringeworthy Marxist slogans anymore because we have far too much information and recorded experience to accept that sort of rubbish now.

Even a movement as clueless as poststructuralism rightly pulled marxism and Marxianism to pieces decades ago, correctly arguing that totalising grand narrative merely strengthens power through a mutually dependent inescapable totalisation.

And poststructuralism was right, because that's how apocalyptic cults work. Multiple disciplines from social psychology and religion to psychiatry and psychobiology have understood this malignant trap for decades from a very different perspective.

But you haven't even engaged poststructuralism, just as you haven't engaged business, the economy, cognitive science and psychobiology. Hence, all you have for people is the violent uprising or nihilism of an apocalyptic essentialism that demands everyone waves away detailed information and facts with totalisations such as 'capitalism'.

That's why you won't address counter critique; parrot Putin's deranged talking points; and dismiss Ukrainians if not the whol of Europe as morally corrupt, identitiless beings incapable of independent thought and will.

It's pitiful to see a grown adult resort to this level of nihilistic misanthropy in 2023 and hoodwinking given the unprecedented access to learning, travel and the economy you now have compared to most of human history. Pitiful.

[Magpietothemax]

^And still we await for you to deal with the known, credible basic facts and data.

I have supplied plenty of facts, and more importantly, a scientific analysis.
You have chosen to ignore it, based on your prejudices, and instead write incoherent diatribes of nonsense and abuse.

[pietillidie]

^Scientific analysis? Oh, eff me dead. You poor sod.