Things that make you go.......WTF? Part II

[think positive]

/\ who?

Look at those beautiful women in the background who have clearly been judged by different criteria. You're ok with tokenism?

its about as logical as caitlyn jenner being chosen as woman of the year....for what exactly was that anyway? they couldnt find a single American natural born female politician, sports person, scientist, activist that was worthy?

its insulting. its a mockery. At the very least judge by the same standards.

when all the female awards, medals, premierships, accolades, and yes pageant queen crowns, are held by trans women, will us natural born females then get our own categories? like a new special olympics?

because quite frankly, with this example, we dont stand a chance.

[David]

Supermodels and pageant contestants generally aren't my type, so I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask. But I do know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that these pageants supposedly judge contestants on a lot more than whether they're a 10 by conventional standards.

https://www.missuniverse.com/copy-of-apply

The winner of the competition must be confident. She must understand the values of our brand and the responsibilities of the title. She must have the ability to articulate her ambition. A delegate should demonstrate authenticity, credibility and exhibit grace under pressure. The women who compete embody the modern, global aspiration for the potential within all women.

[...]

From the scores given in the evening gown competition, the Top 6 competitors are chosen, bringing them to the Final Question round. Each woman selects a judge at random who presents a question focused on various social, cultural and political topics. The Final Question round will determine the contestant’s ability to articulate themselves under pressure while sharing a thoughtful, well-informed response.

So it's based on a lot more than just looks. But even if it wasn't, what you seem to find impossible to accept is that a transgender woman could ever legitimately win a beauty contest, and that if one does then it must just be tokenism. If so, that reflects your prejudice, and a perception of beauty that categorically excludes a certain kind of person. That seems more of a you problem than anything that anyone else should be concerning themselves with.

(And as for whether cis women are being frozen out, this is just one contestant out of 25 who'll be competing for the international title later this year, and only the second contestant in the event's entire history.)

[think positive]

Nup

Skeletal, terrible teeth, there is nothing attractive about 'her’. yes you will pick that i dont care. it doesnt make me what ever label you want to give me, it means i dont believe a trans person should ever compete with a natural born female or male. in anything. win lose or draw. why cant they have a separate division? disabled athletes are not offended by it. they are just different.

I don’t think a trans person should be able to even enter! Don’t care how attractive they are.

Get them their own division,

It doesn’t matter how many get to the next level, what matters is the genuine winner will not be there

[David]

I can kind of understand that argument when it comes to physical sports where someone with XY chromosomes might have inherent strength advantages. But this is a beauty contest; I don't see how being trans gives you an unfair advantage in this context. Opposing participation in this context seems like chauvinism, pure and simple.

[stui magpie]

^

Yeah, but you're a bloke.

It's clear that there is a number of women who feel that after decades of fighting to get equality, they're now being undermined by biological blokes who identify as female.

[David]

And there's a number of white Europeans and Americans who fear that they're being undermined and replaced by dark-skinned foreigners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement

It's not a nice comparison, but the similarities are there. And I don't have to be a white European to recognise that way of thinking for what it is.

[stui magpie]

There's a very key difference there.

The "Dark Skinned Foreigners" were the ones previously repressed by the white people. They're just getting due recognition.

Women were repressed by Men. When First Nations Peoples got the right to vote in Federal elections, Women were still forced to resign from the Federal Public Service when they got married. Women have fought long and hard to get equality with Men, and now they're (in some people's views) being repressed by men again, but this time the men are in skirts.

Not a just comparison.

[David]

You don't think transgender people are (and historically have been) an oppressed minority?

Calling trans women "men in skirts" doesn't erase that history (and very present reality) of discrimination and violence. Indeed, some might well say that that kind of language is one of the key things that helps to perpetuate it.

[stui magpie]

What I think is that you have a serious woody over this subject and aren't willing to concede that people may have different views without being transphobic.

[David]

[stui magpie]

I'm not suggesting we leave the floor to them, just acknolegement that there's 3 sides to the story and they're all legitimate.

[think positive]

I can kind of understand that argument when it comes to physical sports where someone with XY chromosomes might have inherent strength advantages. But this is a beauty contest; I don't see how being trans gives you an unfair advantage in this context. Opposing participation in this context seems like chauvinism, pure and simple.

you cant possibly look at the contestants and think she deserved to win. being held to a different standard is an unfair advantage. no different from duckwood/ginnie quite frankly. a duck is a duck is a duck.

its not chauvinism at all, its a beauty pageant for woman.

shes a trans woman not a natural woman, never will be.

thats not hate its the truth

[think positive]

[think positive]

There's a very key difference there.

The "Dark Skinned Foreigners" were the ones previously repressed by the white people. They're just getting due recognition.

Women were repressed by Men. When First Nations Peoples got the right to vote in Federal elections, Women were still forced to resign from the Federal Public Service when they got married. Women have fought long and hard to get equality with Men, and now they're (in some people's views) being repressed by men again, but this time the men are in skirts.

Not a just comparison.

absolutely correct.

as is the three sides to every story remark.

[David]