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As for Sidey, I think the coach (quite reasonably, if he had been reading Nick's) tried to play him as a small forward much more last night. If there were any doubt, he now knows that Sidebottom is a mid who gets his goals running forward. Great player but not Daicos.
Whether the coach or player realises he is being completely shut down something must change
Sidey was completely outplayed by by Picken in the second half and did nothing to change that
Further proof he's not elite
I think Sidebottom is definitely elite. He's a match winner, one of those players that people from outside the club can see and judge better than our own supporters, it seems.
He got beaten in the second half, so what? Elite players haven't been shut down by lesser players in the past? Excuse me, but that's total bulltish.
Yep, it's how he earned his keep up until Beveridge took over the reins, was one of the best pests.
And since Beveridge arrived he has barely been used in that role. My point was its not a job he does week in week out. Whether you consider him a tagger or not is actually beside the point the fact is he made Sidey useless to the team and again proved he can't play when someone makes him even the slightest bit accountable or puts pressure on him. 3 touches with 2 holding the balls against him in a half of football !! Totally negates the positives from the first half and that's before you add in the offensive work Picken was still able to do. If you believe he's elite after that performance that's cool your entitled to your opinion but in mine he is a long way off it.
How do we feel about just doing a direct swap of Sidebottom for Picken? We need a quick tagger and we may as well get something while he still has some currency.
Mugwump wrote:
Er..... Hem.... He is, you know....
Yep, it's how he earned his keep up until Beveridge took over the reins, was one of the best pests.
And since Beveridge arrived he has barely been used in that role. My point was its not a job he does week in week out. Whether you consider him a tagger or not is actually beside the point the fact is he made Sidey useless to the team and again proved he can't play when someone makes him even the slightest bit accountable or puts pressure on him. 3 touches with 2 holding the balls against him in a half of football !! Totally negates the positives from the first half and that's before you add in the offensive work Picken was still able to do. If you believe he's elite after that performance that's cool your entitled to your opinion but in mine he is a long way off it.
I'm happily going with the majority opinion on this one, Sidey is elite. Point me to the elite player who hasn't had bad games, 1/2s or 1/4s and I'll concede your point but if his "non-elite" performances are going to be 20 possessions, 2 goals and 6 tackles I'll happily take that.
Earlier in this thread someone said Sidey is elite and Beams isn't.
Well I agree with the part Dayne Beams isn't but Sidey is definitely not either
So I went back and found statistically there best year (which happened to be 2012 for both players based on playing a full season. Note Sidey did average 1.2 disposals more per game in 2015 but played 9 less games)
So as a very fair comparison we can compare these 2 players who played the same amount of games against the same opposition in the same conditions
Beams ave 30.9 disposals to to Sidey's 26.4
Beams laid 109 tackles to Sidey's 89
Beams kicked 28 goals to Sidey's 14
Sidey finished
6th in total kicks
8th for ave kicks
10 in total disposals
4th in uncontested disposals
Beams finished
1st in total disposals
1st in total effective disposals
1st in uncontested disposals
3rd in total handballs
4th in ave disposals per game
5th in total kicks
6th for inside 50's
9th in clearances
Beams received 19 Brownlow votes to finish in a tie for 8th including 4 best on ground Sidey received 7 votes (finished outside the top 50) for 1 best on ground (note Beams 4 x 3 vote games that season is only1 fewer than Sidey's total of 5 best on ground in his total career)
Copeland voting Beams won the award 33 votes clear of Pendles wit 205 votes Sidey finished a very distant 4th with 133 votes
Beams was a all Australian player for the first time a feat Sidey hasn't achieved ever
Beams finished in the top 10 of the AFLPA MVP voting, herald sun player of the year voting, fox footy player of the year voting, coaches association player of the year voting all in 2012 (Sidey has never finished top 10 in any of these awards in any year)
Beams as also a rising star nominee (2009) finishing 4th Sidey was never nominated as a rising star (the judges obviously new something then)
Beams 2012 was by anyone's standard an elite season (the only season he's had of elite level) Sidey has never reached this level in any season and even his best season statistically in comparison falls miles behind the elite standard.
I rest my case
qldmagpie67 wrote:Earlier in this thread someone said Sidey is elite and Beams isn't.
Well I agree with the part Dayne Beams isn't but Sidey is definitely not either
So I went back and found statistically there best year (which happened to be 2012 for both players based on playing a full season. Note Sidey did average 1.2 disposals more per game in 2015 but played 9 less games)
So as a very fair comparison we can compare these 2 players who played the same amount of games against the same opposition in the same conditions
Beams ave 30.9 disposals to to Sidey's 26.4
Beams laid 109 tackles to Sidey's 89
Beams kicked 28 goals to Sidey's 14
Sidey finished
6th in total kicks
8th for ave kicks
10 in total disposals
4th in uncontested disposals
Beams finished
1st in total disposals
1st in total effective disposals
1st in uncontested disposals
3rd in total handballs
4th in ave disposals per game
5th in total kicks
6th for inside 50's
9th in clearances
Beams received 19 Brownlow votes to finish in a tie for 8th including 4 best on ground Sidey received 7 votes (finished outside the top 50) for 1 best on ground (note Beams 4 x 3 vote games that season is only1 fewer than Sidey's total of 5 best on ground in his total career)
Copeland voting Beams won the award 33 votes clear of Pendles wit 205 votes Sidey finished a very distant 4th with 133 votes
Beams was a all Australian player for the first time a feat Sidey hasn't achieved ever
Beams finished in the top 10 of the AFLPA MVP voting, herald sun player of the year voting, fox footy player of the year voting, coaches association player of the year voting all in 2012 (Sidey has never finished top 10 in any of these awards in any year)
Beams as also a rising star nominee (2009) finishing 4th Sidey was never nominated as a rising star (the judges obviously new something then)
Beams 2012 was by anyone's standard an elite season (the only season he's had of elite level) Sidey has never reached this level in any season and even his best season statistically in comparison falls miles behind the elite standard.
I rest my case
Can you throw together a comparison of finals performances and stats, and delineate exactly where on the field they get their possessions. A comparison of miles covered would also be nice as would some sense of pace of movement into defense. Can you also look at relative x-factor.
There's actually next to nothing in it, both recruited 2008, Sidey has managed 161 games, Beams 128.
qldmagpie67 wrote:Earlier in this thread someone said Sidey is elite and Beams isn't.
Well I agree with the part Dayne Beams isn't but Sidey is definitely not either
So I went back and found statistically there best year (which happened to be 2012 for both players based on playing a full season. Note Sidey did average 1.2 disposals more per game in 2015 but played 9 less games)
So as a very fair comparison we can compare these 2 players who played the same amount of games against the same opposition in the same conditions
Beams ave 30.9 disposals to to Sidey's 26.4
Beams laid 109 tackles to Sidey's 89
Beams kicked 28 goals to Sidey's 14
Sidey finished
6th in total kicks
8th for ave kicks
10 in total disposals
4th in uncontested disposals
Beams finished
1st in total disposals
1st in total effective disposals
1st in uncontested disposals
3rd in total handballs
4th in ave disposals per game
5th in total kicks
6th for inside 50's
9th in clearances
Beams received 19 Brownlow votes to finish in a tie for 8th including 4 best on ground Sidey received 7 votes (finished outside the top 50) for 1 best on ground (note Beams 4 x 3 vote games that season is only1 fewer than Sidey's total of 5 best on ground in his total career)
Copeland voting Beams won the award 33 votes clear of Pendles wit 205 votes Sidey finished a very distant 4th with 133 votes
Beams was a all Australian player for the first time a feat Sidey hasn't achieved ever
Beams finished in the top 10 of the AFLPA MVP voting, herald sun player of the year voting, fox footy player of the year voting, coaches association player of the year voting all in 2012 (Sidey has never finished top 10 in any of these awards in any year)
Beams as also a rising star nominee (2009) finishing 4th Sidey was never nominated as a rising star (the judges obviously new something then)
Beams 2012 was by anyone's standard an elite season (the only season he's had of elite level) Sidey has never reached this level in any season and even his best season statistically in comparison falls miles behind the elite standard.
I rest my case
Can you throw together a comparison of finals performances and stats, and delineate exactly where on the field they get their possessions. A comparison of miles covered would also be nice as would some sense of pace of movement into defense. Can you also look at relative x-factor.
There's actually next to nothing in it, both recruited 2008, Sidey has managed 161 games, Beams 128.
Look I understand what you're saying, I just disagree.
And for the record, I don't think Beams is elite. A grade, but not elite.
Jack I actually did look into the finals stats your rights there's nothing between then other than Sidey played very well in the 2010 GF's whilst Beams had 2 dirty days. My point wasn't about Beams being elites not he's had 1 season which is of elite standard and a couple others of decent but not elite standard. I just feel the term elite is banded around like no ones business and should only be applied when earned over a sustained period of excellence
Last edited by qldmagpie67 on Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
